Noynoy Aquino supporters are getting fed up
I thought I’d give Noynoy Aquino a break because people are starting to think that I am a paid hack. I keep checking my account for any unusual transactions specifically on the credit side coming from someone named Villar but unfortunately, my account has remained unchanged apart from the fortnightly pay I get from my favourite job. It’s too bad all my articles with reference to Noynoy did not earn me a single centavo and it’s still hard to tell if I am going to get any credit for converting any pro-Noynoy supporter to switch to another candidate. Man, blogging sucks sometimes. There is hardly any visible return on investment for the time spent typing away on the keyboard and then I still get accused of being a paid hack. There is no gratification when one is dealing with Filipinos, really. There’s just a tiny fraction of the population who appreciates real honesty and truth in the get real sense of the words. It’s a good thing I am really passionate about what I’m doing and don’t rely on praises for motivation.
Over at Filipino Voices, I had the pleasure of debating with a new blogger there named Lila Shahani about — ahem — no other than Noynoy Aquino on one of Abe Margallo’s articles. Ms Shahani strikes me as a sensible, straightforward lady, and quite articulate too. You can tell, though, that she has lived a bit of a sheltered existence. I came to this conclusion when our discussion almost turned sour when she accused me of being hostile at some point and assumed I was grumpy as well, an observation of hers that had very little basis considering that I was just being my usual self the whole time. She obviously still has to learn to take things with a grain of salt lest she encounter another “getrealist” in the future.
We haven’t really had a chance to give her a warm welcome to Filipino Voices. FV had only recently lifted their ban on us commenting on their blog articles. In fact, some of the comments by some “getrealists” on that particular article by Abe Margallo have been deleted to silence any further dissent. FV is not the only site that does this though. Most of the websites created for Noynoy moderate or block any Noynoy criticism. I guess they just want to read their side all the time. Being told what you want to hear all the time has the effect of making us soft. So perhaps we too can blame Filipino Voices administrators’ being so overly protective of their bloggers for Lila’s quickness to find hostility in my/our comments.
It was a good thing both Ms Shahani and I quickly removed our fingers from the triggers and managed to come to amiable terms with our point of views. She has earned my respect because she is not one of those pro-Noynoy supporters who dismiss any questions regarding Noynoy as just being, well, anti-Noynoy and she said in the end that her options are still open. She just has to be careful not to allow the elders over at FV to unfairly taint her impression of Antipinoy.com. Regrettably, she is already of the impression that the rest of our colleagues here at Antipinoy.com are receiving money from Noynoy’s opponents. According to her, it’s because for one, a lot of our current articles are about Noynoy and second, she insists that those who are not supporting Noynoy should divulge who they are voting for. For Ms Shahani, doing otherwise makes us “paid hacks”. I did say to her I was leaning towards Gordon partly because I feared she would insist I was a “hack” and partly because it is the truth. I’ll discuss this phenomenon further shortly. First, here’s an excerpt of what she said:
The following comment of hers was what got me going. It came across to me like she was just compromising on Noynoy, which to me was unacceptable:
Mariano, Mike H and others, I understand the view that Noynoy is not perfect and does not have a brilliant legislative career behind him. Nicki Perlas, Gordon and Bro Eddie r certainly very qualified in their own respective ways, but to me it’s about not wanting to split the vote to favor GMA and her people. In an ideal world, I might have preferred Nicki’s credentials, for example. But we r practically in a triage situation at this point.
She later said the following which was, to me, a more satisfying response after a long exchange:
It should be remembered that it was Mar Roxas who was gunning for the presidency, and Hyatt 10 who supported him. Noynoy was not in the picture at all. It was Mar and his people who had a machinery, not Noynoy. U r absolutely right that it was Cory’s death that catalyzed his candidacy, which is why I had some reservations in the beginning. A mother’s death is not a basis for supporting someone.
[...]Thanks for your response. No, I’m not voting for Noynoy regardless. There is still a little time and I may change my mind if new information or new configurations come up. But, yes, for now that’s where I stand.
Some of the boys from AntiPinoy also wanted to join the debate but it was a shame that the rest of the “getrealist” mob’s rebuttal have been deleted from Mr Margallo’s article. It means none of them stood a chance of defending their views. I was lucky enough to have finished my discussion with Lila before the administrators abruptly put an end to the thread.
Over at the Website Noypi Ako!, I was so flattered to find out that my previous blog Nonoy Aquino Supporters Get Desperate has been copied and pasted on their site for the rest of the pro-Noynoy supporters to peruse. This is such great news to me. This proves that some pro-Noynoy supporters are open-minded enough to see an article like that as being worth a read. Of course I didn’t get the expected agreeable commentaries but rather, I got (translated in English) “Why did you have to post that hate blog on this site?” and “I would rather hear stories about how Noynoy babysitting James (Kris’ son) turned out!”. I didn’t mind those ones but what I mind and I found really shocking was some of the claims that I am just one paid hack:
@awie, i know you mean well. reyna elena and b7 folks know the history of these ‘creatures’. mga masisipag na ‘bayaran’ ‘tong mga ‘to. if you want to help them with their livelihood, good for you because nakatulong ka.
here’s another one:
To be honest, I don’t read paid write-up critical of Noy.
and another one:
Gian youre just wasting your time discussing with them you know why? they are just doing their job.
Sigh. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry when I read the above comments. And I really don’t know what to make of this phenomenon. What is the proof that I am a paid hack? Just because I write blogs about Noynoy doesn’t mean that I work for Villar or Gibo. Do pro-Noynoy supporters have access to Villar or Gibo’s bank account? Here’s pro-Noynoy logic at work: You criticise Noynoy = You are a paid hack. Full stop. End of discussion.
What’s our society gotten down to? You can’t have any real dialogue or conversation without being accused or labeled so and so with very little or no basis at all. I really think that they are just firing blanks and hoping the noise will scare us, because instead of giving us a rebuttal or use any real ammunition in Noynoy’s defense, it becomes easier to just dismiss us immediately.
Here’s another assertion by people from the Liberal party about journalist Jojo Robles who wrote the article “Noynoy Aquino Running on Empty” (I have deleted some names):
Comment 1
anyways, the guy who wrote it is Jojo Robles, once acting editor in chief and now relegated to mere columnist of Manila Standard – who is one of the MANY MANY MANY people in media said to be in Manny Villar’s payroll (that itself, was pointed out to me by his former colleagues in Manila Standard)..here’s what S*** A***** who used to be Business Editor of the Manila Standard said about Robles and that particular piece he wrote
Comment 2
this was written by Jojo Robles. Pay it no mind. Me carga yan. Nasa payroll ni Villar yan. I’m very sure about that. In fact your friend (anti-Noynoy Belgian manager of the Century Park Sheraton hotel, *********) posted it pa on his profile last week. And you know naman, since I launched my new blog, I have to read, read, read everything. That’s why I didn’t post it na on the blog e. Hay sus. I know Robles like the back of my knees (not in the biblical sense ha, yak!) but just bec. we worked together in Standard. And having edited the opinion section, I know when he’s cargado or not. (More often than not.)”
Again, where is the proof? There’s just too much talk of being under someone’s payroll but no evidence to speak of. All hearsay. If you read the entire article of Jojo Robles, he wasn’t even endorsing any other candidate. It’s the same with my articles. I may be guilty of criticising Noynoy but I have never endorsed anyone else because I am still in the process of assessing who I will campaign for, and for this, I’m being accused of being in the payroll of another. Where is the logic in that? And by the way, when I read an article in a local publication, I use my brain and judge it on the merit of the article’s message. I try to find out whether the writer has a point or not. I don’t judge it based on whether the writer was paid or not by Noynoy’s opponents. If we can’t even trust our journalists, who can we trust? It seems to me that Filipinos can’t really tolerate or trust each other. What hope is there for our society?
Personally, I have recently been dedicating most of my blogs to Noynoy Aquino as a way of searching for answers or enlightenment as to why he is so popular in those SWS “surveys”. I just don’t see in Noynoy what other pro-Noynoy’s see in him. Writing about him is like an exercise in demystifying Noynoy the person. Pro-Noynoy supporters always write about how he is the right person to lead our nation. I just want to know why. So far, Ms Lila Shahani has been kind enough to admit that the reason why she is leaning strongly towards Noynoy at the moment is because he is what the majority has chosen to defeat Gloria Arroyo. To her, Noynoy is the lesser evil among the rest of the candidates. Fair enough. Like she said, everyone is free to choose their own candidate. Likewise, as far as I’m concerned, I’m free to choose the candidate I want to scrutinise, especially since the candidate I choose to scrutinise is likely to be the next president of the Republic of the Philippines. Better to scrutinise him now than after the election is over — a concept that most Filipinos are not familiar with because as Bert (another commentator from FV) would say, “We’ll just surge the gates!” later on.
Sadly, not a lot of Filipinos get what we are trying to do here in Antipinoy.com. Our colleague BongV said it best:
The call for New Politics is not connecting those who need it most – the marginalized immature electorate. The message needs to be delivered and delivered hard. We have the chance to arrest, stop, block the continued lopsided rule of the oligarchs and their stooges.
All the tricks in the book which use emotional buttons can be addressed by facts and logic. We raise the level of debate by separating the goat from the sheep.
In the interest of balanced blogging, lest I get accused of being biased against Noynoy, please find below my table of comparison for all the top contenders:
The above illustrates what possible reasons people see in all their chosen candidates. Take Villar for example. His evil barometer might be very, very high but when people talk about someone with money, some people equate it with success. His supporters probably admire him for his ability to make lots money in a short period of time. As far as they’re concerned, how he made it or where he got it is still debatable and as far as the public sees it, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Any claims that he is corrupt are just hearsay and never been proven in court despite the number of people talking about it. Another phenomenon that is uniquely Filipino is to label someone corrupt without ever filing any charges against him or her. Even when a case has been filed, it is never followed through so there is very little success in bringing the case to closure. It speaks volumes of the kind of society we have. This is where the phrase “The people have spoken” so aptly applies.
As for Gibo, if it weren’t for his association with Gloria Arroyo and the fact that he is a member of the oligarchs, he would have been getting high marks. As someone pointed out, most of his supporters are women. Enough said.
Richard Gordon as far as I’m concerned is like Hillary Clinton. He is running for the presidency at the wrong time. If it weren’t for Noynoy Aquino, he would be “the lesser evil” to campaign for. People find it so hard to discredit him. There’s the occasional “He cries too much” observation, and to some political insiders, there is “If I wasn’t aware of his shenanigans during the FVR years, I would vote for him” and “He’s still young, his time will come”. Hang on minute…Dick Gordon, still young?! You’ve got to be kidding me!
Nicanor Perlas is just too straight, too wise, too unknown and too unfunded in the sea of famous names, moneyed and supposedly corrupt candidates. Nick is an underdog, the man we should be rooting for and the only one with a platform. A platform is another concept that is totally alien to the rest of the voting public. It is such a hard concept to sell which is why every election is just a carbon copy of the last. Sadly, in a society obsessed with celebrities, Nick doesn’t stand a chance.
Joseph “Erap” Estrada to me is just a total failure in thinking. I just don’t know why he is still running. It is too incomprehensible really. Does he want to finish what he started? He epitomizes what’s wrong with our society. He is a show-off, braggart and totally enjoying impunity. He doesn’t miss a chance for a photo-op every time he is donating goods to the poor. I can see why his supporters still want Erap around, especially those who need his dough.
Brother Eddie is going to be our moral compass. He will be the Ayatollah Khomeini of the Philippines. Enough said.
There you go pro-Noynoy supporters. I deliberately left out Noynoy. Feel free to fill in the data for Noynoy yourself as I really don’t see what you see in him and as you said, Antipinoy has been given the given the flack for being too anti-Noynoy just like Filipino voices has become too pro-Noynoy. To be honest, an election without Noynoy in the picture looks better doesn’t it? This scenario encourages people to work harder and be less enamored with dynasties and oligarchs.
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FilipnoVoices have banned me, too it looks like. Either because I’ve posted into antiPinoy or because Nick and FilipnoVoices moderators like the Lila Shahani a lot or both. Cool!!!
[Reply]
karl Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 11:00 am
“FilipnoVoices have banned me, too”
Say,what?
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Oh no! Up N and Karl have both been banned too! This is just not right. Sorry to hear that guys. You have a home here
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:49 am
I just posted this into FilipinoVoices. [awaiting moderation for the meanwhile, we see if it "shows up" in 2 hours or less.]
=================================
This is the premise — that the Filipino Voices COMMENT POLICY is not specific enough.
This is my suggestion especially now that FV “board” are discussing deleting comments and banning of “…rude obnoxious commenters”.
Post now the comments of past 5 days that became the basis which made FilVoices decide to ban UP n, benign0 (and any others). Post again the comments from benign0, UP n, others which has been deleted.
The purpose is clarity. Those who repeat UP n’s, benign0′s mistakes suffer the same
consequences in the future.
[There should be no need to get UP n's or benign0's approval for a reposting of their blog-comments -- they gave it when they posted into FilVoices.]
Mark with ##### or ***** any phrases or words that
the Filvoices folks found offensive.
Cheers!
[Reply]
UP n grad.
You of all people? Banned on FV? WTF?
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Karl / Bong: Again, FilipinoVoices just rejected my posting of a comment (I’ll post it here. You are good hosts is what I heard. “Good” to mean you welcome all pests, you may argue vehemently with folks you disagree with, but rumor is that you let them post.)
============================================
The following sentence won’t mean much to the FilpnoVoices folks who only care about who is the better candidate. This blog comment is not about Gordon-being-better or Villar’s-the-guy nor if Noy’s the One. It is this — “NoyNoy is vulnerable, quite vulnerable.”
NoyNoy’s risk is with the masa — class-D and class-E. Thus, to me, NoyNoy’s risk is coming from Erap. I don’t have any source for this one, but I am guessing that 8% to 12% of that NoyNoy 40% is from class-D/E. Maybe higher if Pinas classes-D/E are super-emo. To me, that support is shallow. The sentiment is for Cory. Evidence — no one was even thinking of a presidentiable-NoyNoy until 3 days after Cory died. Since the support is from Cory’s death, then when the masa during coming weeks shifts to thinking politics/economics away from pakikiramay, pressure is put onto that 40% number. Will the classes-D/E begin to wonder about NoyNoy as elitista — …a big chunk of Noynoy’s supporters are in the business sector, sparks noted. When the masa hear that line as they get courted again by Erap-para-sa-mahirap, NoyNoy survey-40% is at high risk. Maybe NoyNoy can hang onto the urban class-E if it were true that …The Aquino platform is strong in the support for urban land reform. Villar has a claim to urban-poor, too — this local-boy-from-Tondo. For the rural-masa where NoyNoy has said little, sparks did note about the risk to NoyNoy — Hacienda Luisita and “Erap-para-sa-mahirap”.
And then, there is this — NoyNoy folks should worry that even the middle-class does not belong to Noy. The reason is Villar. While C5 is an albatross, isn’t Villar the only one with a special claim to the OFW-sector? It may be unclear what Villar has done for them and it may be unclear what Villar will do special for them, but Villar remains the presidentiable who has a claim to the OFW sector.
OFW’s — 8 million strong, and you have to double that to 16 million (practically all voting age) once you add spouses and adult dependents left in Pilipinas. Villar. OFW’s. The question — What has NoyNoy done? — obviously also resonates into “What has Noy done for OFW’s?”
It doesn’t matter NoyNoy as better candidate if NoyNoy doesn’t win Malacanang, does it?
Why didn’t NoyNoy listen to benign0 from months ago when benign0 kept heckling — Where’s the beef? What do you offer, NoyNoy? Where’s your platform???? Maybe NoyNoy did not give a platform, it would have helped had NoyNoy gave an answer to the masa asking “What’s in it for me?” How do you help me? Wasn’t that the question from the woman NoyNoy mentioned in his speech to Makati Business Club?
They have to fire quickly whoever has convinced the NoyNoy campaign to wait for the official opening of campaign period before showing what NoyNoy promises to do for the OFW’s different from GMA and different from Villar. The Villar team should continue pounding the message into the OFW sector — “Villar is the one, NoyNoy hasn’t even been thinking of OFW’s; Villar is the one who has always been thinking of how to help the OFW’s” while Erap continues to romance the masa with his “Erap-para-sa-mahirap” serenade (and Gibo courts the machinery — the candidates for local offices — with road-funds / infrastructure assistance with his “…will continue GMA economic programs” message).
NoyNoy, favored by the elite, may be leading in surveys of 4 weeks ago, but it wouldn’t surprise me if NoyNoy does not get Malacanang. This is my opinion. Maybe come June2010, the NoyNoyistas do wake up to see that their age has come!!! But they are not helping their cause any if they continue hoity-toity sniping at those whose support NoyNoy needs.
[Reply]
susie2412 Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
I have always believed that Noynoy is not apt to be a president of the Philippines. People should wake up and open their eyes.
What have the Aquinos really done for the country?
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Exactly susie24!
What have they done for the country? It seems they have reduce the entire nation into a soap opera.
Cheers!
Even I am moderated now. It looks like Nick is organizing the “collective” for his intentions and booting out or suppressing the people who agree less with him.
Lila Shahani herself mentioned the kind of vested interests they have in FV.
“Let’s unite the opposition and get Gloria out of office.”
This is basically what they’re all after. Her campaigning for Noynoy is probably part of her perceived plan to get GMA out and “fix the nation” in what she sees as the right way. But that’s the problem. She sees only her way as right – which is, kick out Gloria and vote in Noynoy. But kicking out someone is her main concern. Thus, she banks on hate politics to get her way. She has clout with Nick since it’s certain they have the same views. Most of them in FV are either anti-Gloria or pro-Noynoy, and they stick to these stances as if they were religions.
You know, it’s tragic. Like her, we’re concerned for the well-being of our country. Why she suddenly has to jump on us because of our vehement criticism of Noynoy Aquino has me shaking my head. I guess there’s only one explanation about hers and her company’s mindset: if the country has to be fixed, we do it our way, and if you don’t join our way, you’re a traitor. That’s egocentrism, and that will do more harm than good.
Readers out there, please read well!
[Reply]
Filo Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 8:44 am
I’m still blocked at FV, and I’m not surprised.
Anyway, tragic that what they want most is to get rid of Gloria any which way they can. This means that they’d probably put up with anyone becoming president as long as that person vows to put Gloria behind bars. So if the cards fall a bit differently, a second Erap administration isn’t impossible, just improbable. Indeed, Filipinos will get the government they deserve.
[Reply]
BenK Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 9:14 am
That would actually be pretty funny.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Hi Filo
I can’t believe you’ve been blocked too. Your avatar doesn’t help your cause. People might think it’s too hostile , hehe
You are right about Erap. We say he’s crazy for running again but I have a feeling that guy really knows what he’s doing all this time. He knows the masa too well
[Reply]
Filo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Ey Ilda. Some say Erap isn’t necessarily out of the running if INC and El Shaddai would pledge their support for him. Knowing that we’re subject to a system that gets minority presidents elected, I do wonder how big a fraction of the electorate these groups really do guarantee in the bag.
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Readers out there: some sites are just too pro-Noynoy. They have an agenda. They have aligned themselves with the Liberal party. They (might be) under the Liberal party’s payroll. Touché
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 7:28 am
ilda and bongV: Even if you take out the NoyNoy-is-our-Guy and May2010 issue and the discussion is about global warming or planting-rice-is-no-fun, there remains where FilipnoVoices and bogV or BenK have, to put it gently, “… differences in approach”.
Applying the point of view of Property rights. My house, my rules. Property rights our subdivision, our rules, then FV’s model is targetted to be La Vista Subdivision, Quezon City — gated.
Not Malate nor the Morato Avenue Quezon City areas with a mishmash of urbanity and variety — Starbucks plus bars where dudes like Conyo and jetH who love to P-A-R-T-Y can get rowdy.
That’s what I see. Kinda cool to observe what is happening. The contrast between models is stark (La Vista versus Malate) at the same that both models are attractive to different sectors.
[Reply]
These “paid hack” dumbf#*ks actually out themselves with their accusations. “Paid hacks” (and I know, because I am one — for Toyota at the moment) are paid to PROMOTE something, not to denigrate or criticize something else. Only someone who is actually doing “paid hack” wrong themselves could even conceive of such a bass-ackwards thing.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Hi Benk
The fact that they are capable of accusing others of being paid with very little basis speaks volumes of the kind of mentality they have. There’s this saying “It takes one to know one.” They have to be careful with what they say because it might just backfire on them.
[Reply]
FilpnoVoices will block the IP-address, not the Name (I still remember the effort Nick/FV mods put into the cat-ant-mouse game between them and Renato Pacifico).
As JoeAm has mentioned, Nick/FilpnoVoices is trying to sanitize the blogsite. Mixing it up is not allowed at FilVoices. The metrics for what is “sanitary” is based on golden rule — Nick’s got the gold, Nick gives the rules — Nick very uncomfortable with big boys and big girls mixing it up. What happens then is the squeaky-wheel rule.
Squeaky-wheel rule is a rule at FilVoice (squeaky-wheel NOT a rule at antiPinoy). Mixing it up is not allowed at FV — a squeaky-wheel complainer gets their mods doing the chase. Heated discussions between JoeAm and, say, bongV gets sustained at FilVoices because neither JoeAm nor bongV will ask the moderators to intervene.
Damsels who play damsels-in-distress, different story. The FilVoices cavalry rushes in to save them. Different story with damsels who can mix it up with the big nasty bullies of the playground — how caffeine conducts herself at FilVoices a good example. FilVoices cavalry don’t need to pacify the playground for caffeine ‘cuz they ain’t needed.
Different folks, different strokes. That’s what I see.
[Reply]
jethernandez Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Hehehehe… welcome to the club of “paid hacks”. Nick is now singing… SHALALALA… SHALALA in the morning… changing the lyrics to SHAHAHANI SHAHANI in the morning…
I guess I just have to repost this one… the one that solicited a reaction from JOE A
================================================================
Let us operationally define Ignoy “handlers and spin doctors” as a-1’s (a-holes 1) and supporters as a-2’s (a-holes 2). Let’s take off from the theoretical framework of Wilfredo Pareto’s 80/20 rule… A-1’s are those who have the greedy perception of benefiting from the loot of the Presidency once Ignoy wins the seat (the 20%). the A-2’s are those who are either intellectually ignorant or emotionally stupid… or both.
The A-1’s are the members of the Liberal Party and other turncoat politicians; Cory’s cronies (now Ignoy’s) that include the Lopezes, the Cojuangcos, the Ayalas and the majority members of the MBCs; the media pundits, hackers and spin doctors includes the likes of de Quiros, jologera Tordecillas and MLQ(gay) or MLQG.
The 20 percent of the A-2’s comprises all the wannabe intellectuals or intellectual wannabes (INTELLECTUAL IGNORAMUSES) of pro-noynoy’s forums such as filipinovoices and barrio SHI.Te (sorry waray ang tatay ko that is the way they pronounce syete). The rest or 80 percent of the A-2s are those who’ve been initially moved by the coffin of Cory, who likes the ursh ursh pag iinarte ni Kris Aquino and the kabadingan of Boy Abunda. The 20 percent of the A-2s are a bunch HOPELESS CASE pricks who are full of themselves because of the books they’ve published, the articles they’ve posted on their blogs. They have twisted logic… since they own the blogs they just delete anything that opposes their fallacious hypotheses…
Let us operationally define Ignoy “handlers and spin doctors” as a-1’s (a-holes 1) and supporters as a-2’s (a-holes 2). Let’s take off from the theoretical framework of Wilfredo Pareto’s 80/20 rule… A-1’s are those who have the greedy perception of benefiting from the loot of the Presidency once Ignoy wins the seat (the 20%). the A-2’s are those who are either intellectually ignorant or emotionally stupid… or both.
The A-1’s are the members of the Liberal Party and other turncoat politicians; Cory’s cronies (now Ignoy’s) that include the Lopezes, the Cojuangcos, the Ayalas and the majority members of the MBCs; the media pundits, hackers and spin doctors includes the likes of de Quiros, jologera Tordecillas and MLQ(gay) or MLQG.
The 20 percent of the A-2’s comprises all the wannabe intellectuals or intellectual wannabes (INTELLECTUAL IGNORAMUSES) of pro-noynoy’s forums such as filipinovoices and barrio ****e (sorry waray ang tatay ko that is the way they pronounce syete). The rest or 80 percent of the A-2s are those who’ve been initially moved by the coffin of Cory, who likes the ursh ursh pag iinarte ni Kris Aquino and the kabadingan of Boy Abunda. The 20 percent of the A-2s are a bunch HOPELESS CASE pricks who are full of themselves because of the books they’ve published, the articles they’ve posted on their blogs. They have twisted logic… since they own the blogs they just delete anything that opposes their fallacious hypotheses…
Please Ilda… tell me I’m wrong… hehehehe…
Tsers (in the words of my waray auntie living in the UK… for CHEERS)
Jet
PS
Just recently NICK PR#CK of filipino voices posted that his forum site is NON-PARTISAN… NON-PARTISAN my a.s.s. He has used the picture of Ninoy for his admin icon. He’s deleted my posts saying it’s a personal attack.
==========================END OF CITED REPLY ON ILDA’S ENTRY==========
Lesson Learned: JUST FILL IN THE BLANKS… hehehehe….
[Reply]
OOOPS sorry… double pasting…
[Reply]
jethernandez Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 10:17 am
… or is it DOUBLE INSERTION… hehehehe…
[Reply]
what’s the point of lambasting Gloria, she’s not even running for presidency. that’s what Noynoy’s problem. Now, i think, they have come to their senses and come up supporting the C5 issue over Villar.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Hi msr
It’s because people are afraid that she might be the first Prime Minister of the Philippines. They are also afraid that she might win as a Congresswoman in her hometown. This is a country who believes in superstition and religious miracles. They also believe that Gloria is a cat with 9 lives.
Just vote wisely my friend.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
“GMA Talsik Diyan! Buy PearlView Hair Product” is straightforward propaganda.
Distraction increases yielding to propaganda by inhibiting counterarguing.
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1970-20808-001&CFID=5917272&CFTOKEN=45454422
Especially powerful when you first get the audience angry before telling them
what they should to “… to correct the problem”.
GMA Talsik Diyan is solved by 1987 Constitution. GMA walks out of Malacanang no matter.
Vote Gordon — GMA walks out of Malacanang come June 2010.
Logical battleground to stop GMA-Prime Minister is elections at second-district-Pampanga.
Action is to support the other candidate running against GMA there.
not support presidential-candidate-this or pres-candidate-that.
Logical…. some folks not running on logic.
[Reply]
test
[Reply]
benign0 Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Hey rego, apologies as your comment “test” went into our Spam queue.
[Reply]
I disagree on the following:
“Sadly, in a society obsessed with celebrities, Nick doesn’t stand a chance.”
You may have a point, but I refuse to accept that. As a Perlas supporter, I’m so much hopeful and I’m doing what I can to give our country a chance.
Still, good article.
————————————-
PERLAS TAYONG LAHAT
————————————-
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Hi Peter
We need more people like you. You are doing the right thing. You are not compromising. Spread the word.
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 2:10 am
RIght on! Vote for the one who represents your beliefs. Not just to get someone out of the palace. That’s the unhealthy fixation of some, unfortunately.
[Reply]
Hi Karl/UP:
Sorry to hear about your getting banned on FV.
Have had enough of FV’s moderation and deletion – it’s not a real forum anymore.
AP may not agree with what guests and commenters have to say – but will fight to the death, your and other’s rights to say what you have to say.
As I have always maintained, how can FV, MLQ, B7 and Ellenville be promotors of democracy, transparency, and accountability when they can’t even be democratic in their own blog sites.
For short, puro palabas.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
One of the things about folks verbally slugging it out on a blogsite is this — there is no bloodshed. Even if one or both the participants get so riled up that they barf, the non-participating audience do not see nor smell the barf. this means to me that there is no hurry to step in to save a damsel throwing a tantrum.
And heckling is a technique for getting information. It often shows itself — “pikon talo”. The angered pikon blabbers on with non-sequiturs. The non-sequitur not only reveals lack of discipline; the non-sequitur usually reveals biases and prejudices. “I can’t talk to you unless I know your candidate; I can’t talk to you unless I know what school you graduated from.”
Pikon-talo. How long can one get involved in a verbal slugfest, for an entire evening?
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
UP n grad above – January 28th, 2010 at 2:47 pm – commented about failure to post into FilipinVoices. I I’ll get him to try again to see if the technical or whatever block-mechanism is gone.
Nope……. (message for JoeAm)
Still didn’t go through.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
I do not believe that Karl has been blocked at FilipinoVoices. Look again at his blog comment — he was quoting me.
[Reply]
karl Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 3:39 am
I was quoting you there UPn, but if my comment I just made there will not appear by tomorrow,I understand I too have days when I sleep beyond 12 hours.
sorry for the confusion,but if they do ban me,fine.I will charge it to experience.
To the getrealists:
I do thank you for allowing me here, I have to Facebook message the the blog owner when I had problems with open iD.
I know I had isues with benign0,but as benign0 says the blogosphere is not a place for love-ins.
[Reply]
karl Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 3:46 am
They published it.
I refuse to believe that UP n or Karl have been banned from FV. Both are constructive commentators, never personal, always issues based, always providing insight. I have personally been blocked or moderated on the site, sometimes for length, sometimes for words, sometimes because the FV computer takes over and locks me out, like Hal and the spacedudes in 2001. I send Nick an e-mail and he corrects that.
I don’t know why AP feels such a need to compete with FV, or put them down. Is it insecurity or what? Rather like the obsession with Noynoy. After a few dozen blogrolls knocking the guy, or a few dozen “Nick the Prick” insults, who really cares? What have you BUILT lately?
Joe
[Reply]
BongV Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
AP:
Frankly, there’s no competition between AP and FV. The perspectives are wider than the Grand canyon.
The issue boils down to this – freedom of expression.
FV moderates/deletes posts that do not toe the FV line – whatever that chimera is.
AP dishes out.. and takes it as well. Level Playing Field – no mods.
There is a filter in place to replace cuss words with *** – but deleting the sentence??? Or moderating a comment by 2 to eight hours? To paraphrase a concept related to justice – a comment delayed/deleted is a comment denied.
Put FV down? I dunno abt that – it seems doing pretty well tripping on its bar set so low.
[Reply]
benign0 Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Let me respond to you with a question too, Mr Joe America:
What has FilipinoVoices.com built?
Does it stand as a true collective voice? Or is it a mere collection of writers?
There is a big difference between being a collective and being a mere collection.
Why is it that you seem averse to competing? Where there is a mountain to climb, you will find climbers. Where there is a river to cross you will find forders. Is it an environment of people giving mutual high-fives to one another the kind of place you prefer to hangout? Well FV is that kinda place. Is it a world where every collective blog gets along with the other collective blog that you seek? I believe in such a world, there will be no TRUTH routinely emerging. Because it is only in a world where ideas compete FIERCELY that TRUTH routinely emerges, Mr America.
You should know. That is what made your country of birth great.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
@Joe
Oh c’mon Joe. It is very disappointing of you to say this. It’s like saying we paid UpN and Karl to say they have been banned. Give me a break. They said they were banned so this means they must have tried to make a comment and the site wouldn’t let them. It’s that simple. Why are you reading their claim as a conspiracy by AP against FV?
You must have blinked and missed the fact that Benign0 and The Real Deal made several comments on Abe’s blog and they were all deleted without a trace including Ms Lila’s responses to it. Go and ask Nick or Abe why they deleted them. It’s not like the boys used bad words. They just used logical ones.
Use your better judgment Joe. The fact that you can still hurl insults in our direction and not be banned or moderated should tell you a lot about AP’s healthy self-esteem.
I don’t even have to try and put FV down, they do it themselves. I just state the facts here on AP as it happens. The truth has to be revealed.
Cheer up Joe
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
BTW Joe, if you think that FV has the moral high ground over AP, how come comments by their esteemed bloggers accusing Benign0 and his “barkada” as paid hacks and leftist haven’t been deleted yet? Do you find that fair? If they have to delete comments from Benign0 and the rest because it is not adhering to their “standards”, they should remove that kind of insult directed at Getrealist as well. Since it is still there, it says a lot about the level of their self-esteem. Touché
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
It’s nice that you feel for UPn and Karl, and I hope you get the idea about why we’re complaining about FV, and why sites like ours are around. “Unite the opposition and kick out Gloria” is a thinly disguised way of saying, “we want to take over and run the country our own way.” Anti-Glorianism and Noynoyism are rabid religions that have taken the brains out of people who should have them, and are among the real causes of a split opposition against a corrupt government. The more they take this George Bush-esque approach to their stance, the more damage they’ll do.
[Reply]
Ultimately it is transparency that drives accountability. People drop the term “accountability” left and right without clearly understanding what it means. True Accountability can only be realised when the environment upon which it is being driven is transparent. This involves ensuring that there is a free exchange of information and ideas and a healthy competition among these to ensure that the best (surviving) idea emerges. How can you when you stifle this freedom?
The Catholic Church (and most organised religion) are examples of institutions that have grown inbred, inflexible, and increasingly irrelevant (at least in progressive societies) because of their inability (or slowness) to absorb, process, and apply new ideas (as well as to critique and discard old or obsolete ones). These institutions have strong and often draconian inclusion/exclusion regimes (e.g. baptism and excommunication in the case of Catholics) and documented dogma that is not subject to re-evaluation and peer review.
Thus those who wave fists and chant platitudes like “accountability” do so in a vacuous way and often their actual routine behaviour is woefully inconsistent to what they preach.
It’s kind of the same principle as the way I describe how all this talk of “eliminating” corruption in our intellectually bankrupt society comes across as mere sloganeering. “Anti-corruption” politicians (and every man and his dog claims to be “anti-corruption”) are neverable to convincingly explain corruption in a systemic way. The fact is, corruption is a system — a system of dysfunction composed of several elements which I described thus in my book:
The above is an example of how one regards an issue, challenge, or problem as a system and is therefore inclined to develop solutions that work at fixing the system of root causes rather than simply whitewashing what are mere symptoms.
[Reply]
Hi, I know this is not the right place to ask but, do you have any articles (but I prefer a chart or a table) that summarizes the objectives/ platforms of vice/ and presidential candidates? For example, who among the candidates support the RH bill? Or what is their solution to poverty? What are their achievements?
I think that a simple yet informative table will help voters decide on who to elect.
Thanks!
[Reply]
benign0 Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
You can check one such table out at the following site:
Elections 2010 Executive Summary of Candidates’ Platforms
Hope that helps. Cheers!
[Reply]
Found this was retweeted by mlq3 and a few others.
From tweeter cocoy:
My open letter to you, dear reader. “We Prefer Hope Over Cynicism” This is Filipino Voices. link.
So for them, Noynoy = Hope, Being logical = Cynicism.
So much for Filipino Voices. I thought that Filipino Voices meant ALL KINDS of voices were accepted, because not all voices sound out the same message. That’s the most misleading name for a forum.
(btw, hello again! i missed this place! XD)
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Hi Maia
Welcome back to the war zone
I knew they should rename it Some Filipino Voice
They should only delete bad words, not ideas.
What hope? There is no hope when the people being accused of corruption are still out there mingling with the rest of Philippine society and even holding sensitive positions in government.
[Reply]
Maia Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Heto pa…
mlq3 RT @hotmanila: asking Filipinos to stop worrying about Marcos is like asking Germans to stop worrying about Hitler
about 11 hours ago from TweetDeck
Is it just me or is that too much of an exaggeration? XD I about died laughing at this.
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Even Anti-Glorianism = Hope. These Filipinos are so good at going against something, rather than for something. Maybe it’s their hobby to go against the government. They probably think, just get the bad guys out, good guys will instantly flow in. It’s hope without a definite plan = false hope.
[Reply]
perry chloride Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Good day.
You’re right. Even Nicanor Perlas said that on his post on Noynoy Aquino.
Straight to the point.
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 2:17 am
Making me go more and more for Perlas… well, anyway, I’m set for him, and if ever I change my mind, I go for Flash.
Uh, Flash Gordon. haha
Say, my comment in “Reforming the Reformists” got through. Looks like I’m not that moderated after all. But when I directly address someone on conflict, like when I speak a piece to defend one of “us”, it will get edited out, Being picky with words I guess helps.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Ilda and chino: First, I’ll say it like this ——- golden rule, he who has the gold, rules.
Then I’ll say it like this —- property rights.
Then I’ll present this as the model — a gated community.
The old FilipinoVoices was much more chaotic with noise and loud disagreement tolerated.
Those days are gone.
As cocoy wrote, “…Where once we were a free for all blog, we have had to institute
changes. …. with our Comment Policy, and our User Agreement,
That’s why we moderate. Because we’ve had to. We’ve had to have moderators,”
Different business-model, FilipinoVoices now puts a higher premium on “order
and harmony”. That’s why…they moderate and comments that do not conform
to their Comment Policy are deleted.
Their house, their rules — gated community.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Hi UpN
They have had to moderate because they are now rubbing elbows with the people they are supposed to be writing about. There’s just too much padrino in Philippine society – the negative kind.
They can’t even explain why ideas are being censored.
I feel for you UpN. I didn’t think they would ban you too. There is hardly any balance there now.
[Reply]
The Real Deal Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 11:40 am
It would have been great if the FV Moderators were “simply following rules.” The problem is that they aren’t!
What they’re doing is following their own individual whims and caprices.
I for one never used cusswords on them, I used pure logic to demolish their logic or lack thereof (and, modesty aside, I’m really good at it.
), and of course, they’d feel hurt.
But that’s how debates go. I don’t hit who they are. I hit their ideas, and that’s because 95% of the time, their ideas suck – in the objective sense, that is. Their ideas are either inconsistent, illogical, or are based on the wrong facts. And I always get to expose their ideas’ flaws. Of course, it makes them look like fools, but that’s why they’re supposed to put a lot of thought into it before choosing what to say in the first place. If I’m able to demolish their arguments, it’s because they didn’t do their homework to begin with.
Now that’s where the problem lies. People like Buencamino have hurled cusswords at me thanks to how I exposed his ideas as being shallow and built purely on slogans and platitudes. Then there’s Lila Shahani whom I’ve questioned on several areas which reveals that despite her advanced degrees from some of the most prestigious international institutions of learning, she’s quite unaware of a lot of stuff. These two people are the types that go to the moderators to ask for assistance. Or you could say that in Lila Shahani’s case, the moderators wanted her – considered ROYALTY (for being a Ramos-Shahani) – to grace their board, so they stifled any dissent that would “hurt Lila’s feelings.”
Very unfair of FV, honestly. To read that other people like UPnGrad or even Karl Garcia and Hyden Toro got their comments deleted or their IP’s banned shows that indeed there is something very wrong about FV.
Not necessarily Nick Yap Cugtas or Cocoy Dayao, but some of the individual moderators to whom great power is given.
I received a message saying that Cocoy claims to have taken on all moderating tasks on FV, but quite clearly I am still totally unable to post anything there. In other words, they banned my IP! “Your comment is awaiting moderation” doesn’t even show up. The entire post just disappears into oblivion.
Now with that in mind, this JOE AMERICA guy needs to get his head fixed because he’s so freakin’ biased towards the FV Gestapo. I mean honestly, what the hell is wrong with this guy?!? Defending the wrongs that FV has done? Refusing to acknowledge that SO MANY PEOPLE have been moderated/banned/had their comments deleted on FV?!?
If you can’t understand what freedom of press is supposed to be, you’ve got to relearn it. Go back to America, Joe!
(Sorry Joe, had to let that out. You’ve been such a pr!ck with all that pretentious sucking up to the FV mods. They only let you stay there ‘coz you’re a YANK! Worse, you’re a SIP-SIP Yank.)
[Reply]
Joe America Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Real Deal,
You are a real sweetie.
I merely represent what I believe, that FV’s intent is good (or why would they do it), they have the right to edit, and editing is not the same as censorship.
For that view, I am invited to go back to America, called an ass hole, a prick, biased, a Christian (hahahahaha, heee hooo), a cry baby, and some other terms that have slipped past.
I have not raised my voice.
Now, who exactly around here is intolerant?
Y’all are like hyenas, gathering as a pack to feast on the kill, the relentless yipping and yowling reinforcing the bloodlust.
Joe
The Real Deal Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Just had to let it out, Joe.
You really have been sucking up to the FV mods EVEN WHEN THEY CLEARLY ARE IN THE WRONG.
There’s no other way to put it but that you’re SIP-SIP (look it up, if you have absolutely NO IDEA as to what that means, Joe).
I admit, I’m intolerant of bull****. And you’ve been bull****ting the whole time. So many times have numerous different people – some FV oldtimers – talked about being banned (IP’s), put on automatic moderation, or finding out that their posts have been deleted and guess what you bull****tingly denied that such a thing happened. No different from Holocaust Deniers (Ilda has an article on that).
You’ve got to stop the flip-flopping Joe. I’ve seen you occasionally grow some brains here and there, but whenever you flat out deny that the FV people have been biased DESPITE THE OBVIOUS EVIDENCE and the increasing number of people who report to have experienced being moderated or banned (even people who are clearly unaffiliated with Benign0, BongV, or BenK), you’re sucking up to them and bull****ting. What the hell for, Joe?
Censorship is when FV outright DELETES our posts or bans us from replying there. That’s censorship. That they may occasionally edit stuff also counts as that, but what people are really angry about is not just the editing. So no bull**** from you, please. Call a friggin’ spade a spade. You need to admit that FV deletes other people’s comments and bans them and the evidence is clear…
This site, antipinoy.com, and the other site “Unmoderated Filipino Voices” would not have existed at all were it not for FV’s dictatorial censorship style of deleting posts, banning IP’s, and placing people whose views run counter to the FV consensus on permanent moderation.
Quit the bull****, ok, Joe? Learn to call a spade a spade. No sugarcoating. And no sucking up to the FV mods. Tell them that they’re wrong when they’re wrong. Now that’s INTEGRITY!
May Party Sa Dasma Wala Akong Wheels Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 4:32 am
aren’t you glad you got that off your chest?
if you like censorship so much you should be a human rights activist in china.
good luck with melamine milk!
Joe America Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 2:45 am
Well, Chino, I suppose if you were a covert operator and wanted to get your idea across, you would simply learn to write in a style that is acceptable to FV, but slip in your digs. I have no problem being pro-Gordon and anti-Noynoy in my remarks there.
I think y’all are making too big a deal out of it, like taking it personally.
It’s an editorial perspective, is all. You have them at Fox or NBC or on the John Daily Show, or Saturday Night Live, or Rush Limbaugh’s show. Freedom does not say anything goes. It gives editors rights, you know. Y’all have hobgoblins in your mind.
Try adapting, eh, or forgetting about it.
Joe
[Reply]
jethernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 3:13 am
Lo and behold!!!! Joe… still in a kiss-A.ss mode.
1. Your assumption in form of a stupid question that the behavior of the AP is to compete is… simply stupid. Why in the hell would you think that way?
2. You’ve assumed that AP posters are insecure. Hehehehehe… bwahahahaha… What makes you think that BongV for example is insecure with Cocoy… just to be more exact with your sweeping generalization. NOT AN INCH… NOT AN INCH JOE… i tell you.
3. There is an obsession on Noynoy.
Tsk tsk tsk… these are what you call FALLACIES joe… before you post those stupid presumptuous questions… you must state your argument first. Leading questions are stupid questions.
On your troll on Chino…
1. FOX, NBC and whatever shows you’ve stated are not INTERNET FORUMS in the first place. The format is just state your OPINION… state ANOTHER OPINION… Whatever form it is… that doesn’t matter… it is the substance that counts… let me throw back your trash to you —ARE YOU GOD? FYFI (for your f.u.cking information) folks here did not engage in gutter speak when they were posting at FV.
2. Your suggestion stinks… there are x numbers of forums when trolling and flame wars die down without applying censorship through deletion and moderation. NICK THE P.R.ICK is just a plain and simple HYPOCRITE… stating that it is NON-PARTISAN… NON-BIAS… NICK CUGTAS from Cebu… IS AN A-HOLE WHEN IT COMES TO HIS FV FORUM…
Love
Jet
[Reply]
Joe America Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Jet,
Your usual smooth and diplomatic self, I see.
The issue is, does a blog sponsor have the right to edit? The answer, of course, is that he does. He bears responsibility for what is published under his banner. If comment is suspected of being libelous or slanderous, he has a right not to publish. If it is obscene, he has a right to hold the site to a higher standard. If it is racially offensive, he has a right to withhold publication. Some would say obligation, not right.
You, the contributor, have no rights other than what you earn through constructive commentary. Alas, you have not earned the right to publish on FV because you fail to distinguish between issue and personality, and always to go personality. That is not what the editor is looking for.
It is so very simple, really.
Joe
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Joe:
The only way to ensure freedom of the press is to have your own press.
FV is its own press.
AP is its own press.
Now as to which press recognizes freedom of expression – that’s a no-brainer.
****
LIBERTE’
****
We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. ~Henry Steele Commager
The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers
Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
We have a natural right to make use of our pens as of our tongue, at our peril, risk and hazard. ~Voltaire, Dictionnaire Philosophique, 1764
The dirtiest book of all is the expurgated book. ~Walt Whitman
Joe America Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
BongV,
When an editor marks up a book, he is not censoring. He is applying his standards.
Joe
Joe America Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
The government that bans the book is censoring.
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
“Every edit is a lie.”
— Jean-Luc Godard
Consider, my dear friends, that Yahweh and Jesuhovah spoke and these words were written down by those heard them first hand. But something happened in between that point and The Bible we have now. Those words were EDITED. By whom? The Catholic Church! Why? So it can meet their standards? And what is the difference between standards and agenda? A standard is not mathematically precise. It is, in fact, loaded with BIAS.
That is why every edit is a lie.
Joe, I hope this doesn’t stop you from sending more dollars!
See you at Starbucks
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Hey JoeAm
You never really answered me here:
Cheer up Joe – don’t be so biased.
jethernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Ey joe…
I just call spade a spade… Your argument is always presumptuous.
1. Your first paragraph assumes that we do not know the rules of engagement in joining forums and blogs discussions. beeep… wrong argument… try again. Facts cited are moot and academic.
2. NICK the PR.ick as an editor/blog owner/forum owner is just filtering those that do not conform with his biases… deletes them… proof… go through the ANTI-GLORIA threads posted before the noynoy’s streak of opportunism… most of them are “libelous” by your standards. yet he’s allowed it to be posted. some of them are posted by either by moi or my other psuedo. it is his CYBER-GOD given right to do WHATEVER HE LIKES. no one in the world can take that right away from him…
3. Fu.ck.t three… NICK the P.R.ICK is a pro-noynoy / anti-gloria… these are his biases… anything that annoys these biases are deemed for editing or deletion… ergo… cyber censorship.
4. In my case… I am not whining or crying on Nick the P.rick Cugto’s cyber-god-given right to censor and his exercise of such stupidity. I am just defining a spade a spade… he is full of HYPOCRISY when he keeps on posting that FV is a NON-BIAS, NON-PARTISAN forum…
Love
Jet
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
More concrete examples Joe:
If President Clinton was recorded having a vulgar conversation with one of his interns. Should that conversation be EDITED to meet somebody’s standards? No. I would like to hear every word. The more the cussing the better!
If a Catholic Priest abuses a boy, should the facts be EDITED from the general public?
If Congressional investigators want to listen to the Nixon Tapes to find out THE TRUTH, should they be EDITED?
I’m on an intellectual roll Joe. Why? I smell blood.
See you at Starbucks
jethernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
careful conyo on the “intellectual” engagements with nick the pr.ick’s apologist. he might indirectly say that you’re racist and a gutter speaker… he’ll end up whining again… shouting his usual line … “i’m an american… do i deserve this? i demand respect”…
see you at the point-point…
PS
sa turo-turo ang kape merong extra laway tastes of the jeepney drivers… they don’t wash the coffee cups… makes that male bonding kinda thing more effective…
Conyo Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 12:23 am
Jet,
Nick may be a dumbass but Cocoy is the one who is EVIL. Picture pa lang ni Cocoy, sindak na ako. Kinda reminds me of Kim Jong Il who, interestingly, also likes to CENSOR or “EDIT” (as JOE likes to redefine it, which I have clearly proven is a LIE) everything that happens in North Korea. Maybe in another life, Cocoy will get his wish and be a dictator where he could rule a country according to his “Standards”.
But let’s not be too hard on JOE. We need his DOLLARS!
See you at Starbucks
Conyo Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 12:47 am
Okay I smell blood so let me DESTROY Joe’s arguement.
Definition of Edit (www.merriam-webster.com)
a : to prepare (as literary material) for publication or public presentation
b : to assemble (as a moving picture or tape recording) by cutting and rearranging
c : to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose
For blogging, definition C is most applicable.
Pay attention to the words ALTER and CONFORMITY… “to suit a particular purpose.”
So, you see. EDITING has ZERO impartiality. It is loaded with BIAS, which makes it inherently political. Also, I would like to add that the word CONFORMITY implies COERCION.
So JOE, let me get this straight. You consider yourself a CHRISTIAN and you worked as a JOURNALIST. Now look at the very definition of EDIT from the damn dictionary and you are telling me with a straight face that there is nothing wrong EDITING the TRUTH?
WOULD JESUS EDIT? WOULD GOD EDIT? CHRISTIANS like you are full of SH!T.
But don’t take it personally, JOE. Have a nice day. We need your dollars.
See you at Starbucks
jethernandez Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 3:06 am
Ey conyo… easy on Cocoy… i think he’s in love… hehehehe… FV is now a MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY… Nick has found his Joe… and Cocoy has his Lila…
So what’s wrong to be IN LOVE?
See you at the POINT POINT…
Joe America Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 6:01 am
Conyo,
Whatever gave you the idea I am Christian. Indeed, I resent the name-calling. I prefer Jet’s asshole designation.
Jet,
Do you follow American Idol? You, in getting banned by FV, remind me of the singers who, upon hearing from the panel of judges that they are not qualified to go forward, go into a stonewall protest and have to get escorted from the studio by the bouncers. It’s like there is some rock wall in their brain that prevents them from comprehending that they do not fit the specs. As they act out the ego-reality disconnect, they completely fail to see the vivid truth that they are not what the producers are looking for. Instead, they make up lies to themselves and bad words for those watching. As if this would somehow change the reality, they just can’t sing.
Ilda.
I never said FV has higher moral standing. I said its editors have the right to edit. One man, or woman’s bias, is another’s esteemed value. I like MOST of AP, for it has good minds here, and I learn. Some of the stuff I can live without.
Joe
DC Juana Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 11:41 am
jethernandez:
- cocoy is indeed in love, but it’s not w/ lila. cocoy is the online world’s version of efren-chasing-after-angel as he’s been hopelessly trying to flirt with a girl who unfortunately does not think of him as anymore than just a fellow blogger. online ligaw to the max. but cocoy doesn’t stand a chance. his ancestry just isn’t going to cut it. and when asks her “ba’t mo ko binasted?” her answer… “Eh kasi… DC Juana.”
Chino Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:36 am
Actually, the reason for AP is because… we’re getting edited at FV. If it doesn’t appear at FV, we post it here. Simple as that. Not competition… just the alternative outlet.
[Reply]
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:42 am
Exactly.
Got fed up with the moderation and censorship of my comments at FV.
It was so annoying to have your comment read 5 hours after the discussions have peaked.. WTF!
Then Nick comes out with his “civility” crap – To which I have always maintained – I will not sacrifice liberty in the name of “preference”.
Let’s duke it out – and settle it in the open – and let the chips fall where they lie.
Listening to other views allows me to understand their perspective as well. Not only mine, but of other readers as well. If I allow comments that pass the “preference” test only – I deny myself and other readers the opportunity for learning. That’s not right.
For a site that supposedly supports a candidate for honesty and freedom – how can it claim moral ascendancy when it deprives other views of freedom in its very own backyard.. living room even – it cannot even walk its own talk – THAT’S THE BEEF!
Chino Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 3:08 am
That’s also another problem with FV. Claiming moral ascendancy. That they’re unbiased and non-partisan. Unfortunately, the actual influences have snuck in more quietly than you know it and helped kicked out an opposing side. Anyway, why should any site claim moral ascendancy… why should anyone?
Probably they want to make the environment more pleasant to attract more readers and guests. Problem is, these guests will be open pickings for the partisan interest present at that site. Hmm, that’s seems to be the goal of this initiative. Creating a picking ground for the dominant partisan interest.
Anyway, we’ve got our own picking ground here and at UFV. It wasn’t really competition at first… but it may well be now.
Interesting. Your very own playground. Now stop whining and get on with your take on things. So somebody’s comment got moderated, someone got banned. Get over it. You have your own space now. Let the fun begin.
I may be checking out both blogs so if I may request that you link to the other’s blog post when commenting on it on this space?
Gracias.
[Reply]
jethernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 3:34 am
Who’s whining? What fun would you want to have?
Psst… parekoy… bago ka mag a abla dito ng ganyan buti pa basahin mo muna yung mga pinaglalagay na posts dito at naka cross reference… di mo na kailangang i request yan… ginagawa na yan dito.
[Reply]
Jeg Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:02 am
Thanks, jet. Much appreciated. Carry on.
[Reply]
Jet Hernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 8:34 am
Any time sir Jeg… anytime…
benign0 Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:07 am
Jeg, you can also check out UnmoderatedFilipinoVoices.com where we also immortalised comments that are casualties of the draconian censorship of FV.
[Reply]
Jeg Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:35 am
Thanks, benny. You know what would be a good idea? For FV to link to that site for anybody who would want to continue their discussion there if comments in FV dont pass their commenting rules.
[Reply]
benign0 Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:34 am
Indeed, it is a good idea, Jeg. And logical too.
So don’t hold your breath as ideas of that sort don’t find fertile ground in FV.
[Reply]
JET,
LEAVE JOE AMERICA ALONE!!!
WE NEED HIS DOLLARS!!!
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
jethernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 3:39 am
hehehehe… ok… i can’t help myself. i guess i’m a tanga na pumapatol sa tanga… hehehe…
[Reply]
Ahhh, forget FV.
Frankly, we should stop giving them the attention they no longer deserve. As of now, getting banned there becomes a badge-of-honor…until it becomes so common that it becomes baduy, hehehe. Let them fade away by themselves for the un-democratic display of censorship going on there. The current lack of fire on the site is already an indication of things to come. People will eventually tire of the comments by the same ol’ blowhards who only want to show how intelligent, well-read, and well-versed they are (which is boring as ****). Collectively, they haven’t gone beyond being just another blogsite.
Well, neither has AP (so far)…..but you know what? I like it here better…..much better. It’s not the quantity of posts that matter…..it’s the quality…and I believe that’s gonna get somewhere later. Oh, yah…we have the occasional a-hole popping-in with their annoying comments every now and then , but at least no one can complain of comments being deleted. That speaks volumes on credibility. Later on, some of the young and open-minded idealists at FV will see that and will follow the likes of those who have already shifted here.
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:26 am
I got banned before ALL of YOU.
Sino ang ASTIG ngayon ha?
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:43 am
Conyo:
You are THE man!
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:58 am
BongV,
I just wired our “payment” for your “web design services” to your swiss bank account
See you at Starbucks
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:24 am
Conyo:
Dude, it’s short by $2.25 – you skimmed some more cents for the Venti latte?
Or was it the chocolate fudge brownies – hmmm.. that’s the wrong brownie – the right one had medicinal weed… LOL
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:29 am
You are so wise Mr Homer. But the experience there has been a hit for some reason. Less than 24 hours and this article has gone viral, hehe. I have a feeling there are so many people who are already disappointed at Noynoy’s supporters because of their behaviour. There are people who just want to get some validation because they don’t know what to believe in nowadays.
But you are correct as usual. Thanks for the support
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:00 am
Ilda,
I seem to have misplaced your swiss bank account number.
Please re-send via txt so we can complete our “transaction.”
xoxo
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:38 am
Right. I seem to have misplaced your mobile number Conyo so I’ll meet you at Starbucks around noon tomorrow to complete the “transaction”. I’ll be wearing pink.
See you at Starbucks and then the movies
Ilda,
Perfect.
We have another job for you. It appears that Hugo is starting to become a real pain. We might have to send you over there to give Mr. Chavez some “perspective”.
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:51 am
Ahhh…another tropical paradise? No thanks. The humidity is stifling already around here.
See you at the movies
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:58 am
Okay fine.
We may have to send Agent Benign-Zero (God have mercy on them).
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 6:05 am
To tell you the truth Conyo, when I was writing about Villar, you were on my mind, hehe. You and your obsession with money. Thanks for the inspiration
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Ilda,
I am glad to be a source of inspiration.
But please, don’t don’t don’t fall in love with me.
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
It’s too late Conyo, your bad boy image has got me. Your aura of mystery is just too alluring. Not to mention your talk of money would sweep any woman’s feet off the ground. And you’ve got that brand that is so pleasing to the eye…not.
See you at the movies
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
I may not have Benign0′s charm
Or something like BongV’s Pearl farm
But my heart, now yours ‘hon
Is bigger than BenK’s gun.
See you at Starbucks
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Ohhh…I poem just for me?! I had no idea you felt this way.
I may have to start drinking coffee now just for you
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
One more, better version:
As I read you bash Noynoy
I wonder if its just a ploy
But it makes me want you more
For there is much that I adore
My heart lights up in flame
As your blogs drive me insane
I am at a loss on what to do
I would give up Starbucks for you
See you at …. wherever the hell you want
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Now, I’m blushing…hihi.
You’ve obviously brushed up on your wit.
You have the gift of the gab…you are “the one” We have to thank Noynoy for this.
Your willingness to give up coffee means you are really into me…but then…your bad boy image is suffering…the James Dean barometer is going low…I don’t know now…I’m feeling suffocated…I need some time to think…this is all going too fast…
I need a drink.
Here is a good idea posted by Mr Jeg in a comment on Cocoy’s “We Prefer Hope…” piece:
This “garahe” is already set up. It’s called UnmoderatedFilipinoVoices.com. There is nothing technically difficult about readers being alerted to comments made from another blog, because under normal circumstances they get what is called a “ping back” whenever a blog post is cited in another blog.
The trouble is it is not only comments that get moderated on FV. Even pingbacks from referring sites aren’t spared from being derezzed over at FV as well.
So the question now to Cocoy (who I heard is now the absolute Lord of the Realm of Moderation in FV) I respectfully make is this:
Will ping backs from UFV be displayed on FV?
Note that I raised all of the above ideas and asked the above questions on FV. But it remains under moderation (or in a spam queue or whatever).
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 6:47 am
At least Jeg gives the clue that, “what? you mean everybody’s voice is no longer heard now? Not for everybody pala ang FV!” That’ll do something to FV’s rep without us lifting a finger.
[Reply]
Looking at the picture of Noynoy above… can’t help it. Di talaga bagay ang yellow. His skin tone does not match at all. Its sallowness contrasts with the brightness of his shirt. Noynoy in yellow = fail. Nyehehehehehe
[Reply]
homer Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 8:26 am
Hi Chino,
Baka naman yellow is for the streak on his back that may reveal itself when it’s time to deal with the subject of oligarchy (and other topics of national interest). Let’s see if he’s got a real sledgehammer to deal with corruption.
Yellow also seems like a fit for Villar since he refuses to face his C-5 accusers. He should dump orange and wear yellow too.
I also thought of Floyd Mayweather Jr. as yellow, but that’s another topic.
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
I’m thinking of the common Filipino as yellow because they keep on voting for the dumb choices, have poor conduct amongst themselves (observable even while I vacation in Singapore) and are afraid of real change (culture change, parliamentary system). They think Noynoy will do everything for them. Actually, I pity Noynoy. He’s the butt of jokes when his manipulators are the ones who deserve the frying. But some Filipinos are just too yellow to acknowledge this.
[Reply]
Chino Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
“I’m thinking of the common Filipino” – let me rephrase…. I’m thinking of the Anti-Pinoy… hehehe
homer Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 2:51 am
Pare,
Enjoy yourself in Singapore! Put away your laptop and drown yourself in Hainanese Chicken Rice. They can never do it as well here in Manila.
Don’t worry…..when you get back, people will still be Anti-Pinoy, and Noy will still be around to make you laugh (poor guy)…..hehe.
Chino Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 3:12 am
Pare, I’m already back in Quezon City. SInipon nga eh. But thanks, I have enjoyed myself in Singapore.
He may never post this on this palengke of a blogsite, so this is a quote:
manuelbuencamino
January 29, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Cocoy,
You know I’m against censorship of any kind. But it’s your blog.
[Reply]
Word-association — consider for “FilipinoVoices”.
Hyde Park, London vs Tianamen Square, Beijing
– La Vista Subdivision versus Malate or Tomas Morato areas.
– Batasan versus Malacanang.
Interestingly for me:
– My tourist-brain-cells remind me I had a better time at Tianamen Square.
– If I were buying a house money-no-object, I’d buy Forbes Park, there is a house along Balete I’d want next, but a La Vista house would be A-okay, too.
– The power-brain-cells in me say MorePower to override other opinions is better — Malacanang.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 8:12 am
If I wanted a blogsite where I preach to the world, Tianamen/La Vista/Malacanang.
Hyde Park/Malate/Batasan is what I build If I wanted a palengke where people can exchange (and I can listen to) ideas.
[Reply]
to bongV, benign0 and others: FilVoices frustrates because what they are building does not meet your architectural specs. Property rights. Their subdivision, their rules.
[Reply]
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 9:35 am
UP:
gated community is okay.
what’s not cool is you say it’s “non-partisan”, when it is actually, partisan.
the thing is – okay lang when MCB and Bert flick their boogers? but it’s not okay if people react with boogers, too?
that’s not right.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:04 am
I also just posted this into FilipinoVoices and it is awaiting moderation.
http://filipinovoices.com/we-prefer-hope-over-cynicism/comment-page-1#comment-136670
—————————————-
This is the premise — that the COMMENT POLICY is not specific enough.
This is my suggestion especially now that FV “board” are discussing deleting comments and banning of “…rude obnoxious commenters”.
Post the comments of past 5 days that became the basis which made FilVoices decide to ban UP n, benign0 (and any others). Post again the comments from benign0, UP n, others which has been deleted. The purpose is clarity. Those who repeat UP n’s, benign0′s mistakes suffer the same
consequences in the future.
[There should be no need to get UP n's or benign0's approval for a reposting of their blog-comments -- they gave it when they posted into FilVoices.]
Mark with ##### or ***** any phrases or words that
the Filvoices folks found offensive.
Cheers!
[Reply]
Jet Hernandez Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
persons who don’t call a SPADE a SPADE will always resort to INTELLECTUALIZATION OF STUPIDITY…
bongV: Just think about this for a minute. FilipinoVoices and antiPinoy (as well as FreeThinkers or Philippine Commentary and other Filipino blogsites) — one community all wishing to improve the quality of Filipino blogging, right??? All committed to enhancing the exchange of ideas from one Pinoy to another Pinoy. What gets in the way every once in a while, though, are bad eggs — the rude and uncivilized.
As cocoy wrote recently in FilipinoVoices for FilipinoVoices — “We encourage you to speak your mind, but let us be civilized.” They mention it because the Twitter-world got to hear that FilipinoVoices do moderate to where they (i) delete comments and/or (ii) ban commenters who violate their comment policy… and are rude or not civilized.
So what makes sense is a better definition of “…rude and uncivilized”. If JoeAm gets to know the rules, then JoeAm gets to stay within the rules. If Primer Pagunuran gets to know the rules, then Primer gets to stay within the rules.
This, then, is my idea — let us tar and feather that UP n dude — he’s a lost cause anyway. The UP-dude, I’ve heard, has a serious reputation for being really rude, uncivilized, disrespectful both to young (GabbyD), old (Abe), white (JoeAm) and female (sparks). [On occasions, he would say. Not all the time, UP n would say.] This to me is a great opportunity for the Filipino blogging community to improve the quality of, well, the blogging community. I say let us all rant on that UP n dude — tar and feather the dude, it is his fault anyway, let him pay the price.
FilipinoVoices have to take the lead in this. Right now, FilVoices is not helping because if you go to their site, the UP n comments you see are the ones that FilVoices consider ” not rude, not uncivilized”. The instances when UP n was rude and not civilized have been deleted. [Side-comment : personally, I'm curious what cuss words UP n uses? In French, maybe???] If antiPinoy has such postings, then post. The information shared will help with improving the quality of the Filipino blogging community — make things clearer.
To me, who cares about UP n, he posted the posts, then what happens next happens next. FilVoices has the cases — the old UP n blogcomments. In my opinion, this is best opportunity for FilVoices to show a specific example, the example being the UP n dude who has posted rude and uncivilized blogcomments. FilVoices to put out on the internet the unacceptable comments from UP n . Makes sense to me, what do you think?!
FilVoices gains — they get to make more clear the instances which make them ban folks or delete comments.
JoeAm and benK would learn — culture-thing — to see clearer differences between Filipino- and USA-rules of engagement.
Information makes the world inch forward, that’s what I think. What do you think?
[Reply]
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
I really don’t give a hoot what FV does.
To paraphrase JFK – AP is not afraid to entrust the readers with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a blog that is afraid to let its readers judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a blog that is afraid of its readers.
If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky
Take away the right to say “f*ck” and you take away the right to say “f*ck the government.” ~Lenny Bruce
[Reply]
Will miss the palenke, Will miss the debate full of emotion yet so logically and illogically sound. But as far as the pursuit for knowledge is concern let the BLOG War Wage! if that is what it takes then so be it o.o though kahilo mag switch sites back to back. Also, I’ll miss the ‘process’ of deducing each varying stands and arguments while inducing my on take on things on a single site.
Kala ko pa naman matanda na ko para hindi subuan >< kailangan ko na pala ulit magchupon parang bata lng o.o sa FV.
Pro or anti ,Yellow or Red, I guess we Filipinos even in the inter-web are now officially divided.
If peace does not work,then let war prevail!* though it is not a competition, but I firmly believe it might do so, since nahahati na tlga, even readers are affected by these bickerings…po
-Silent AP and FV follower since Ignoy declared he was running. but silent no more …
this is infotainment to the next level!:) what's next?
"The Filipino’s greatest enemy is himself – the Anti-Pinoy."
then let us be the greatest enemy of ourselves..and maybe find the greatest us in return…that was how I've always interpreted it.
AP all the way!
[Reply]
BongV,benigz
I suggest that this site be merged with the UFV.
call it APUFV, UFVAP or just AP
by what you tell us, the reason for being of both blog sites are the same.
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
I agree.
Anti-Pinoy, as a name, is BAD BRANDING. It’s not welcoming/inclusive. It also lack the sizzle of GetRealPhilippines, Utak ng Tilapia, or WE NEED HIS DOLLARS!
See you at Starbucks
[Reply]
BongV Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Karl:
UFV is more or less a site – where “banned” and “moderated” comments get to see light of day.
For example screen captures of Shahani’s comments that were deleted by FV.
Or my comments being flagged as spam.
‘baga… naging sisiw ata mga tao sa FV – napaka balat sibuyas.
what do they want – they are the only ones to dish but they can’t take when it’s their turn? napaka gulang.. style pinoy na bulok.
[Reply]
Ok Bong!
============
Conyo,
Thanks for being cool.
naalala ko yung isang encounter natin sa FV
that was a case of ang pikon ay laging talo at nagmumukhang tanga
[Reply]
Conyo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Karl,
I am really so different in real life that people will be surprised when they meet me.
This Conyo persona of mine is just my way of blowing off steam, like saying JESUS MY ASS, POWTAH!
See you at Starbucks <—- there is a reason why I say this, really.
[Reply]
Karl Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Conyo,
See you there.
[Reply]
It took some effort to read and re-read and doublecheck, but as best I can review the entries, none of my blogcomments into FilipinoVoices have been deleted. I am still banned-from-FV; haven’t been able to post for several days, but as best I can analyze, my UP-n-comments that were there before I got banned remain in FilVoices.
This is good news!! The “rudeness-and-crudeness”-UP n blogcomment that got me banned is still posted in FilVoices for anyone who may want to double-check. I don’t read any of my comments as rude and crude, so to Lila Shahani who has commented “…Or Up n, who surprised me with his unnecessary rudeness in my impunity blog.” ..you shouldn’t be surprised when I say this — Nope! No apologies from me.
[Reply]
benign0 Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
UPn, don’t worry about it. Anyone who presumes to be a judge on who is rude, crude, or uncivilised is talking out of his/her arse. As you yourself pointed out, these terms are used in FV’s moderation guidelines but as to the mechanics of how these terms are actually going to be applied in the delivery of their moderation “justice” is anyone’s guess.
So there’s really no point in even being reflective about it whenever someone hurls such accusations at anyone.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Hi UPn
I can understand how you are feeling right now. You have been active with FV for a while now. I just don’t understand why they say you were rude. You always say what’s on your mind yes, but I never read you being rude.
Give it time. What they are doing is inbreeding. Just to make you feel better, their offspring will look weird
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
What??? FilVoices doesn’t have clarity in their moderation guidelines?
There’s a joke in here somewhere, right? They can spin round and round with this issue which will be a sight especially now they know the Free Thinkers and other blog groups have been sensitized to observe.
[Reply]
UP n grad Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
Okay, for those of you who believe editorial prerogative is the same as censorship, I would say that you probably view the asylum as best run by the patients. FV is an alternative for those who don’t want gutter dialogue, and what is wrong with giving people of discretion that choice? Or must people always have their face rubbed in someone’s spittle to gain your respect?
I would also point out that a site that permits thugs to chase contributors away with invective and insult is just censorship in a different suit.
I am happy to note that my suspicion regarding Karl is correct. He was not banned at FV. I am also hopeful that UP n will find the door open as his views are roundly insightful and constructive. FV editorial decisions like excessive moderation of BongV and apparent banning or moderation of Benign0, I suspect, reflect FV editorial judgment that relentless ragging on Filipinos is a tad overbearing, and not exactly the tone they seek.
Being a visual and imaginative person, I rather see the Anti-Pinoy crowd as a collection of buzzards, really bright ones, actually, who circle around what looks to them like a carcass, that being the Philippines. They occasionally dip down to peck at an eyeball to see if the body is still twitching. They are outside looking in, so have a perspective different from the fleas inhabiting the potential carcass.
I’m doing my best to be a responsible flea, which on occasion requires dodging the pecking (edited to strike “peckers”, this editing not being censorship at all, but deference to the fine people here I consider to be friends).
Joe
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 6:30 am
Only one thing to say to you Joe, just have a look again at the allegations against Benign0 and his “barkada” . Why hasn’t it been deleted yet? They’ve known Benign0 since the beginning of FV. The administrators there know he is not a paid hack or a lefty. Why didn’t they tell Ms Lila that? Why are they so protective of their own bloggers to the point that they already see the blogger making an error and yet they didn’t even send her an email to inform her about the facts. These are strong allegations Joe that some people in AntiPinoy are just taking lightly.
BTW, I posted a reply to Lila on FV and it didn’t go through. I tried it the second time and it just said that it is already a duplicate of the one I just tried. I Don’t lie.
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 7:00 am
My comment for Lila finally went through. Third time lucky. You can read it now on FV.
Gees. I think we should just give this all a rest. My blog above is just a narrative of what happened to me in the last few days over the net. It’s loaded with facts and opinion. Let’s just live with it!
[Reply]
Joe America Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Ilda,
I never said you lied, but you are contributing . . . umm . . . distortions when you raise and wave like a flag the statement that Karl and UP n have been banned. They have not been. FV is working through a transition. The computer has criteria that cause it to flag submissions for review. A link will cause a comment to kick out, for instance. I think you need a little more consideration that they are not trying to be jerks, but trying to attain a discussion site that is different than AP’s “anything goes” formula.
Why, really, are people here so worked up about it?
If the rules don’t suit them, they go bananas. The ego and personal likes are what matter.
Reminds me of the Philippines . . .
Joe
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Mr America
Ok. So you like FV more than AP. Big deal. It’s a free world. You are most welcome here at AP even if AP is just second fiddle to you but please, don’t accuse me of distorting the truth. Just have a read again of the thread and count how many times UPn said he is still banned from FV. Don’t spin this around to cater to your own wild imagination. I must admit I thought Karl was banned until I realized that he was just quoting UPn. He has already corrected that himself by saying he hasn’t been banned. Just count now how many people here have been banned: Benign0, Filo, The Real Deal and BongV. Do you still think I am making it up?
Have you become a spokesman now for FV? It seems you are more knowledgeable of their moderation rules by saying “The computer has criteria that cause it to flag submissions for review”. You said this despite the fact that they already released an official statement that they do ban some comments that don’t pass their standards. I myself experienced it when I tried to make a comment for Ms Lila and then Cocoy claimed that there was nothing pending on their moderation/spam folder. He then relaxed their automatic moderation system that’s why I got in later on when I tried it again. That is why I said ‘I DO NOT LIE”. That wasn’t addressed to you actually, it was meant for Cocoy. But unfortunately, it is my word against his. He and I know the truth my dear. I don’t really have to waste my time convincing you.
You are mistaken to think that I care if they moderate me or not because I happen to have a life outside blogging and it happens to be a beautiful life
Please read my blog again just in case you have forgotten that it is Noynoy supporters who we are talking about. Majority of FV writers and fans just happen to be pro-Noynoy that is why this debate has continued on for 2 days.
Tsk, tsk, remember Joe, careful not to let your standards go too far down.
Cheer up. What doesn’t kill FV can only make them stronger. That is, if they learn from this experience.
Joe America Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Oh, Ilda,
Don’t worry so about my happiness. My young son and beautiful wife take care of that. These are just words in search of understanding.
I think when you use the word “banned” you are distorting things in a gross way. BongV and Benign0 get moderated in such a way that they choose to avoid the gameplaying. They are not banned. Karl and UP n were never banned, but you waved them about as grand insults to human conscience.
Jet is banned.
Distortion is a variation from truth.
Joe
The Real Deal Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Joe,
Quit the sugarcoating and sucking up to the FV mods, please. I’ve been banned there too. It’s an IP-address thingy. Anything I post goes straight to oblivion! It doesn’t even reach the “Awaiting moderation” phase.
Guess why this happened… It’s because I trounced Buencamino and all the other Noynoy hacks. It’s also ’cause I found so many holes in Lila Shahani’s ideas.
You’re the one distorting the truth when you justify the dictatorial censorship that FV does.
Can you just call a spade a spade for once and quit the bull****, huh, Joe?
It’s irritating.
Filo Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 12:08 am
Joe,
Could it be that the Pinoy’s general lack of tendency to verify from other sources have actually rubbed off on you, thanks to FV? You don’t know what gets blocked, but argue as if you do. Joe, Joe, Joe.
You can downplay it all you like, but that doesn’t change the fact that we’ve been banned, blocked, edited to sound like something else, and you’re playing the apologist for FV’s convenience. Woo hoo.
Do us all a favor and remember these
(1) It was UPn himself who found himself banned;
(2) The misunderstanding that Karl was banned has been rectified as per Ilda;
(3) Distortion is a variation from truth, describes the biased FV censorship practices.
Thank you for that last gem.
Filo Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Joe,
Name one of us FV dissenters who’s said editorial prerogative equals censorship please. I don’t see why both the application of editorial prerogative AND censorship can’t be happening at the same time.
“Gutter dialogue” isn’t the only thing they have an aversion to. I believe that has been explained already.
——-
Now, to be clear to everyone who is SILENTLY keeping track of all these discussions regarding censorship at FV, the fact that you don’t see the comments they delete at FV means you’re left to IMAGINE whatever it was that Joe describes as gutter dialogue. And unless we get to save these comments and post them at UFV, you’ll never know whether they were indeed of gutter language because you’ll never see those comments. Not entirely honest of FV and certainly not fair to just call it “editorial prerogative” while conveniently branding some people “rude” and “uncivilized,” wouldn’t you agree? Not honest at all for FV to not inform Lila Shahani about her wrong assumptions.
Perhaps there ought to be a challenge for FV to publish these “rude” and “uncivilized” comments so that everybody could verify whether said comments were indeed rude and uncivilized, or they were silencing something else entirely.
[Reply]
Joe America Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Filo,
You don’t have to imagine very hard what gutter language has been exorcised. Just read this blog thread.
FV does not brand people. They silently exclude them. The branding is done by the people themselves.
As for Lila and her wrong assumptions, maybe you need to disabuse yourself of the notion that neither Jesus Christ nor Filo are editor at FV. It is a bunch of Filipinos working hard and earnestly. They can’t get it 100% correct, and they will never be able to duplicate what is in your mind.
Joe
[Reply]
Joe America Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
erratum: “. . . disabuse yourself of the notion that Jesus Christ or Filo . . .”
J
BongV Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Joe:
Tupac’s gutter language is sheer poetry.
Bob Marley’s ganja-driven angst is gutter music.
Language, gutter or not, is a valid expression of the ethos and zeitgeist of the times.
To deny such makes the FV scene look like an ostrich farm.
Jet Hernandez Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
FV does not brand people? bwahahahahaha
you’re either a retard or a hypocrite like nick the pr.ick… i’ve had enough of your gutter rhetorics that seems to be morally upright… you’re a chronic backfighter joeam. this AP versus FV thing is getting in your head.
Filo Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Joe,
Like the previous comment, there’s no reason why {a} FV branding people and (b) people getting themselves branded by their own behaviour, aren’t both happening at the same time, but it’s only of your opinion that they’re one and the same or indistinct. The problem is that (a) and (b) are rather unequal from different perspectives, though you argue otherwise because you refuse to see this side’s reasons for which this very website was created. How you can’t see that doesn’t prove it isn’t there.
You’ve always been open to reason but this time you’re skipping entirely that simple challenge posed to FV: put all the comments out in the open and show us whether even half of it all is “gutter language” or just strong dissenting arguments FV loyalists can’t stand seeing. I myself don’t cuss over at FV, so if there ever was an exception 1% of the time then why don’t they show it? They sure won’t be able to explain the 99% that should have made it through, don’t you think?
You feel strongly about defending what you think you know, but until FV reveals the unaltered comments that they deleted, you’re arguing with us on severely incomplete information. Worse, those who merely read FV are left to just take their word for it without substantiation. I think this one you understand perfectly.
As for Lila and her wrong assumptions, maybe you need to step back and realize that whoever is the editor at FV, it is common decency for those who know better to correct her where her facts are all bent. And that common decency they so value when talking about their comment policy seems to fly out the window when it comes to getting facts straight, never mind the lack of transparency. Heck, why not – it’s much much easier to have Cocoy appear as if he’s putting his foot down. So yes, I am under no illusion that I am editor at FV. And because neither are you, you don’t really know what (specif. the evidence) you’re fighting for.
As far as duplicating what I have in mind, they don’t really need to do anything but SUBSTANTIATE the drama by publishing the evidence. But they can’t and they won’t, because that will greatly dent their credibility. And you, Mr. America, might just stand corrected, being the mature person that you seem to be. Oh, pie in the sky.
KoKo Korean Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
BongV,
You are incorrect.
It is I, Koko, your Benevolent, All Wise, and Supreme Leader, who determines what is the valid expression–period! I know this because I am your Benevolent, All Wise, and Supreme Leader.
Obey me because I know what is good for you. Obey me because I know what is right.
If you do not obey me, I will have to give you the gift of silence which was exactly what the Romans did to this troublemaker named Jesus.
Sincerely,
Koko
Benevolent, All Wise, and Supreme Leader
[Reply]
ilda Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Mr America
@Joe
You are starting to sound like a broken record. I already told you about Karl and how his quote of UPn got mixed up. I already told you that it was UPn himself who said he wasn’t allowed to comment. The Real Deal is now telling you himself that his IP address has been banned. You are the one waving the flag and making me look like I am making things up. People can see through it Joe. I think you are very annoyed that our point is starting to make sense. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
You even refuse to answer questions like how come the administrators there haven’t deleted the allegations towards Benign0 and his “barkada” as a paid hack and being a lefty? How come the administrators didn’t bother to correct Ms Lila about Benign0? They didn’t help her in that instance man.
It’s so easy to do a rebuttal for you because I just have to repeat what you haven’t addressed so far.
You seem to have misplaced your logic today mate.
Relax and go to Starbucks
[Reply]
Joe America Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 6:23 am
Ilda,
You must understand that I am reeling from all the love received here on AP. I can’t keep up with all my shortcomings they are coming at me so fast.
I don’t know about the FV administrators. I don’t cozy up to them. I just believe a site without twits in it is a better forum.
I think there really is a justifiable reason moderated sites go to moderation. It is real, it is nasty. It is unfortunate. I think if there weren’t so many really extreme idiots, the editors would not worry about BongV and Benign0 at all. But once the editing standards are laid out, it gets messy and obviously offensive to those who are not welcomed without equivocation.
I don’t mean to ignore your points, and I agree my CD is skipping . . . on to starbucks, eh?
Joe
BongV Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 9:38 am
Joe:
I have not been banned, but all my comments go to the Spam folder.
Comments with my IP also go to the spam folder.
At the rate the discussion are going do you think Cocoy will just be sitting to watch and approve comments coming from me.
Now if this idiot called Nick had any brain between his ears, his Big Brother wannabe-ways stay in 1984. I don’t have patience for New Speak.
ilda Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 4:35 pm
@Joe
I understand your loyalty lies elsewhere but you have continued to insist that I am a flag waver despite knowing what’s real. As I told Ms Lila in my response to her, my blog is just a narrative and there is nothing to read between the lines. You were witness to our discussion in Abe’s blog. How can you possibly read more into it other than just an evaluation of how one voter chooses her candidate and how Noynoy supporters get carried away with their twisted logic? It just so happens that FV blocked some of the arguments that the boys wanted to inject into the discussion. In short, the sh*t hit the fan and the rest is history.
You want us to support FV instead of creating a new site because you think that doing so will just divide the readers. But how can we do that when they block opinions that differ from theirs? I for one cannot stand some of the way writers publish a thousand words that have no substance in it. Pure fantasy. They don’t want to challenge the way people think. They refuse to accept that the citizens of the Philippines are largely to blame for its problems. They single out blaming the government when the people are the ones who voted for them. FV contributes to the lack of progress in the Philippines because they don’t want to discuss what’s wrong with the people. For them, to do so is cynical and unpatriotic.
AP is an alternative Joe. It’s as simple as that. I am not responsible for all the love going your way because you seemed to have asked for it yourself.
Yeah, I like Starbucks now. I might hang out there more often coz at least I have a friend there.
Joe America Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Ilda,
“You want us to support FV instead of creating a new site”. No, I just want you to respect that the intention of FV is good, not bad. They are good people, not bad, even if their thinking is amiss. If their editorial decisions cause them to fail, they bear that price, as they carry the responsibility. I’m glad AP exists, as it has a dynamic that clearly does not exist at FV, and (shhh, secret) sometimes I enjoy mixing it up . . .
Joe
ilda Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 8:12 pm
@Joe
FV’s intention is to get rid of evil Gloria and replace her with lesser evil Noynoy.
Misguided. Pure and simple.
Joe America Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Ilda,
I refuse to accept that is official FV policy. Please refer me to the source or I will consider your comment intentionally distortional.
Nah, I would consider it to be a flat-ass lie for the sake of undermining FV.
I would accept that a contributor such as Lila might have this goal.
Joe
Filo Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 12:25 am
Joe,
Your refusal to believe has no bearing on the truthfulness of Ilda’s statement, nor does your repeated ignorance of the prevailing sentiment at FV make her (actually, our) observations unfounded.
To be flat-ass clear, nobody here needs you to sign-off on what we say before we say it.
ilda Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 1:12 am
Gosh Joe, It is an opinion; my opinion which happens to be shared by the rest here. It is an opinion very much like your opinion that AP is anti-Noynoy.
I’ll list down some of the FV bloggers here that are pro-Noynoy. Let’s start with the one who is now responsible for moderating, meaning holding a key position in that site:
Cocoy
Abe (who deleted some arguments that were critical of Noynoy)
Manuel Buencamino
Patricio Mangubat
Sparks
Norman Sison
Ms Lila Shahani (pro-Noynoy now but says can change her mind later)
It is so obvious to me that you have made it your mission to annoy me in the last 3 days. Why are you taking this personally? The last I heard, FV is still operating.
Please don’t take out your beef with Jet on me. You’ve hurled insults after insults towards me and AP but still you are here always welcome. Don’t be surprised when others see through your pretense of being the victim.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Joe America Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 12:36 pm
There are facts and there are opinions. When the opinions are knowingly counter to the facts, you have distortion. With distortions, it is hard to find harmony. Without harmony, it is hard to build something good.
Why are you so interested in tearing down rather than building? You have been ranting here about FV, accusing them (wrongly) of banning people, accusing them (wrongly) of having an agenda for Noynoy, accusing them (wrongly) of seeking to oust Gloria. Yout attach the opinons of FV’s contributors to FV as if it were FV’s official position. I don’t understand your motivation, truly.
Also, in suggesting that I go to FV instead of voice my views here, are you attempting a soft-shoed ban of my comments? You are one of those chicken-**** censor types?
Joe
BongV Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 1:25 pm
we can be technical about this – the long and short of it is that – our posts and replies are not appearing on FV – that we might as well be banned.
this is like a conversation where one country says – there are no trade barriers because there are no high tariffs on imported goods – BUT imposes non-tariff barriers like Vapor Heat Treatment – knowing the country of origin does not have facilities.
in like manner – unlike B7 where upon landing on the site and upon processing our IP address – we get a YOU ARE BANNED sign – rendering the total site inaccessible (which of course can be accessed with another IP) our comments were flagged as SPAM.
on both counts – it has the same effect – our replies despite being factual and totally devoid of ad-hominems DO NOT GET TO SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY.
and now, the list justs getting longer and longer – first it was me. then benign0, then BenK, then Filo, then Chino, then ilda – if that were the case, FV might as well place something on their site that states – we want cutie-patootie posters with flawless medieval english only.
So tearing FV down? like the Pinoys in da pinas, FV mods and site operators are doing a great job, tearing their own site down.
One thing for sure, without FV’s stupid moderation system – AP wouldn’t be around!
FV built AP, as disenchanted and disenfranchised authors and commentors felt FV was becoming an inbred incestuous orgy of celebrating wimpy mediocrity.
Margallo, Buencamino, Cugtas, Dayao – are out in the open for Noynoy. They blog, write, extol – I bet Margallo would eat noynoy’s sh|t if given the chance.
The Agenda is to get Noynoy elected. It walks, it talks, it quacks like a duck… waddya know… it is a duck.
I dunno.. at the rate am reading… Patalsikin si Gloria NOW or… Surge the Gates – how should this be interpreted? they want gloria to stay?
You attach the opinons of FV’s contributors to FV as if it were FV’s official position. I don’t understand your motivation, truly.
Let’s be more specific – the FV contributors who determine FV’s official position are Cocoy Dayao and Nick Cugtas – it was Nick who put me on moderation… then it was Benny’s turn.. then BenK…then Filo.. then Chino… WTF????
ilda Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Since you just repeated again what you have been saying for the last four days, I’ll just paste my rebuttal to you yesterday:
@Joe
I understand your loyalty lies elsewhere but you have continued to insist that I am a flag waver despite knowing what’s real. As I told Ms Lila in my response to her, my blog is just a narrative and there is nothing to read between the lines. You were witness to our discussion in Abe’s blog. How can you possibly read more into it other than just an evaluation of how one voter chooses her candidate and how Noynoy supporters get carried away with their twisted logic? It just so happens that FV blocked some of the arguments that the boys wanted to inject into the discussion. In short, the sh*t hit the fan and the rest is history.
You want us to support FV instead of creating a new site because you think that doing so will just divide the readers. But how can we do that when they block opinions that differ from theirs? I for one cannot stand some of the way writers publish a thousand words that have no substance in it. Pure fantasy. They don’t want to challenge the way people think. They refuse to accept that the citizens of the Philippines are largely to blame for its problems. They single out blaming the government when the people are the ones who voted for them. FV contributes to the lack of progress in the Philippines because they don’t want to discuss what’s wrong with the people. For them, to do so is cynical and unpatriotic.
AP is an alternative Joe. It’s as simple as that. I am not responsible for all the love going your way because you seemed to have asked for it yourself.
Yeah, I like Starbucks now. I might hang out there more often coz at least I have a friend there.
*******
As to your allegations that I am trying to censor you, you are being a flag waver surely. Don’t forget Joe, I was the one who invited you here because I valued your opinion. I didn’t realize you are a moving target.
Thanks
Joe America Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Ilda,
FV is not the demonic effort you portray. Therein is the sadness to the tale, Filipino tearing down Filipino. Clan warfare, internet style.
The oddity, the supreme oddity, is that you (and others on AP) preach freedom of expression while allowing FV precious little latitude to be different than you. I don’t think it is overt hypocrisy. More likely, it is just failure to think past your personal feelings, the hurts you feel from perceived slights. Certainly Jet has gone off the deep end personalizing his disagreement.
So I would just offer the best advice I know to give, a personal opinion. Get over it, and get on with building an intelligent community at AP. Welcome the differences as a richness of Filipino society and stop trying to “get even” or snuff FV. In fostering battle, you are living the old framework of an ill Filipino society that AP conceptually wishes to rebut, the Ampatuan framework. The need to tear down those who, in the insecurity of the moment, are deemed a threat. Thrive on building, not demolishing. LIVE anti-pinoy, don’t just write about it . . .
And forgive my lecture. We old folks sometimes pontificate to you youngsters . . .its the way we justify our lives . . . but that is a very different topic, indeed . . .
Joe